VCC Ep 45 Rates and Contracts 20260430
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[00:00:00] You should be able to read through that contract and know, okay, my voice could be here, here, here, and here, but it would never be here or here. You know? It's... You have to know exactly. You're listening to the Voice Over Casting Corner podcast. VCC is brought to you by The Voicecaster, the country's first and oldest voiceover casting house, established in 1975.
The Voicecaster casts thousands of voices every year across all genres, and we're excited to give you an inside look at the casting process direct from our casting team. Hey, everyone, and welcome to Voiceover Casting Corner. My name is Kelly Mashinsky, and I'm the owner and head of casting here at The Voicecaster.
And I'm Catherine Horan. I'm the senior casting director here at The Voicecaster. So today we are talking about contracts, rates, and all the red flags. This is one of those things where I feel like a lot of actors tend to not fail, but kind of go downhill a little bit on the business side by- This is the-
not knowing some of this. [00:01:00] Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's not the bad auditions, it's just, you know, if you don't understand how to quote rates or what you're looking for- Mm ... it's gonna affect your business. Yeah. So that's, that's really one of the biggest things. It's like, a lot of times it's like, "Oh, I need to sign this contract," and it's treated like it's just, like, they got sent it, we're gonna sign it, and call it good.
It's just the admin work. But you have to, especially now, read through it. Yeah. You are a business. Your voice is a business, and you have to know what you're signing because a lot of times it's like you're giving away rights and control without even really realizing what they could potentially use it for, just based on wording in contracts.
You have to have some confidence in looking at these. You have to have that clarity in knowing what's what, you know, when you're looking at it. So hopefully we can shed some light on a few things for you just in terms of all of that. [00:02:00] I understand this can be tricky. I mean, most of you guys aren't lawyers, so you're not familiar with the language that's used in a lot of contracts.
They don't make it easy. Mm-hmm. You know? Nope. It's like reading tax documents or something. You're just like- Yep ... your eyes glaze over. Like, what am I... What does this mean? Can't they make this easier? But yeah, it's really important to know what you're signing before you sign something. And, and if nobody teaches you this stuff, how are you gonna know?
So we'll try and, uh, shine a little light there. And I think one of the easiest things to start off with is the difference between session fee and usage. You know, when you book a job, usually there's two components to it. There's the actual recording session, so that's the fee you get paid for your time in the booth.
And then there's a usage, which is what they're using it for, like a TV commercial or a radio commercial. That's the usage. And just because you record a spot doesn't mean it's ever gonna air. [00:03:00] Sometimes things get scrapped. Mm-hmm. So you might just get the fee for the session. You might not get that usage.
But if everything goes the way it's supposed to, you record the spot, it airs, you get the session fee, and then the usage payment. Yep. And that's, I always try to remind people of that. It's like when you go into a job, you know, say it's a non-union job, they're paying $500 for the session fee and $2,500 for the usage fee.
Do not expect to be paid $3,000. Know that when you go in to record, you are making 500 on that session. Hopefully they use it and you get compensated then for the use of your voice as well. But really only expect that session fee. I've had a lot of people get really upset when they've already had like, the usage fee was spent.
And it's like, well, I mean, it's never guaranteed. You know? It's if, if your voice makes it into the final. So keeping that in [00:04:00] mind. And really, you know, when you're, when you're breaking down rates, it's the usage that determines the rate. Drives me crazy that there's things out there where it's like per word, you get paid this per word, or you get paid this per minute.
No. There may be some certain narration, internal, you know, kind of things where that could potentially apply. For the most part, it's where it's being used. How much usage is it? Mm-hmm. That's where the rate really is, and I think that's where pay to play has kind of hurt everybody. If it's TV, it's gonna be a higher usage rate.
Cable versus national network, two different rates. Mm-hmm. You know? And then you've got streaming, and then you've got digital and social media. Paid Media and non-paid media, you know, those are two different things. Radio, but is it terrestrial radio- Mm-hmm ... where it's on your, you know, on the radio in your car?
Or is it streaming radio and it's online? [00:05:00] There are so many different things now, and there's so many gray areas that you have to know what exactly the use is, and know as much as possible. Because, you know, it's CTV right now, connected TV, streaming, they may have it listed under digital. You know, that is going to be higher than a commercial that's just made for the internet.
So, you know, it's like being very aware of what are the different types of use and how to price those. Yeah. There's a lot to it. What's an actor to do? Where do you go to find out? Like, how would you even begin to know what to charge, especially if, you know, this is something you're doing foot traffic on yourself, you don't have an agent or a manager there in your corner.
How on earth are you supposed to know what these things should be paying? Mm-hmm. And that's where things like, uh, the GVAA rate guide really come in handy. And, you know, this is a great... It's a website, and it's got all of these [00:06:00] categories broken down, and terms of usage. All these things are there, and it gives you an outline of, you know, what an ideal rate for these different types of things would be.
And use that as a baseline. I've obviously worked with the, the rest of the board members and, you know, it's, it's one of those things where a lot of the rates in the GVAA rate guide are ideal. They're ideal rate ranges. And we do give ranges for everything because it can vary so much. It does. And even, even on our side, it's, we don't always see rates within those ranges.
Sometimes they're a little bit lower, you know? So it's also just kind of, you have to look at everything and kind of weigh where it's at, see what's being offered. You know, sometimes there is gonna be an offer that's a little bit lower that's in there. These are baseline, these are suggestions. None of this is a rule book.
If the rate says 2,500 and you're being offered 2,000, fine. In most cases, [00:07:00] that's fine, you know, if you're okay with it. You don't need to turn down a job because of that. You know, now if the, if the suggested is 2,500 and they're offering you 500 Then that's probably a sign to negotiate. See if you can get them up and kind of go from there.
But it will give you some, some standard ideas to know if the rate being offered is a lowball offer, and it will give you also just kind of leverage for negotiations so that you can say, "Well, the industry standard according to the GVA Rate Guide is this," and see what they come back with. We even use it as a tool for us with our clients, and like I said, they don't always come up to all of those rates.
A lot of them are within those rates, but some do not come up to those rates, and you just have to kind of work and figure out what you're comfortable doing on an individual basis. And it's okay if you're [00:08:00] not comfortable with it for whatever reason, it's okay to pass. No, always. Especially with some of these lowball projects.
I wish more people would pass on them so that those- clients realize that that's not an acceptable rate. Absolutely. So in terms of contracts, let's just kind of talk contracts 101 really quick here. Everything should be outlined in your contract. Your usage terms, session fee, how long the session is with that fee, all of that should be outlined.
So like on the non-union side, a standard session fee is usually $500 for up to two hours. So if they are asking for three hours for $500, all of that has to be in there. They don't get you for like a day rate, like on camera. Sometimes that'll be in a contract because they're working with on-camera actors as well, so it'll say like $500 session fee for up to eight hours, and it's like, ooh, no.
That's not how voiceover works. So make sure you are fully aware of all of that. Mm-hmm. And then of [00:09:00] course, any usage, making sure that you know the media, making sure that you know the term, how long is it going to be, three months, a year, in perpetuity- Mm-hmm ... which you should avoid. Avoid. Um, we will talk about that for sure.
And then, yeah, what, uh, what kind of exclusivity is there? You know- Mm-hmm ... depending on what it is. Like TV is notorious for holding the exclusivity, so if you do a commercial for Taco Bell, you can't do any other quick service restaurants. Mm-hmm. So just being aware of that. Every so often, you know, on the non-union side, you'll see them holding an exclusivity.
It's not as common, but you need to be aware of that if it's there. Mm-hmm. If it is there and you don't want it to be there, that could be something to negotiate on. Absolutely. So just- Or get more money for it. Exactly. Like a holding fee that's separate. Mm-hmm. And then renewals. You know, is there additional pay if the project continues?
You know, if they, if this is for a one-year term and they wanna use you again, [00:10:00] making sure you know, are they paying the same rate? Is it maybe a slightly discounted rate because you're not re-recording anything? You know, stuff like that should be outlined. Usually they'll have that kind of in the options.
You know, what, what I feel like we're seeing more is there's, there's typically on renewals, there's not usually another session fee unless they need you to come back in, but they, most people now are offering a 10% increase for the second year. So if you were paid $1,000 for the first year, you'd get 1,100 for the second year.
Nice. So at least, you know, that is moving in the right direction. Great, this is for money. Yeah. Doing their work. Absolutely. Y- you have to look at things in terms of in perpetuity is they have your voice for forever. So avoiding that. The only in perpetuity that is typically okay, and this is more on the commercial side, obviously animation, video [00:11:00] games, those are very different.
If your voice is in a toy, it's gonna be in perpetuity. You know, there's just things like that. But on the commercial side, you want to make sure that there is some sort of cutoff. Some people who wanna do in perpetuity end up okay at two years, or even doing like a five-year buyout, that's fine. The other thing is watch for all media.
Sometimes they will just say all media and try to blanket everything, but you want them to be as specific as possible. By all media, are we talking broadcast TV, digital, streaming, social, and radio? 'Cause most of the time they're not gonna have radio and TV for one spot, right? They're very different. So why do they need to have all media, you know?
And it's like, they'll be like, "Oh, it's my standard contract." Well, then let's just outline everything that it could potentially include and make sure if it's the right move for you. And, you know, sometimes, you know, talking about standard [00:12:00] contracts or clients using a, a contract that they use for on-camera talent and just using it for voiceover, sometimes things, you know, seep through that shouldn't be there.
So things like image and likeness. Mm-hmm. You know, usually in voiceover they don't ever need to know what you look like. That's that's the beauty of voiceovers. Doesn't matter what your, your image is. So if you see stuff in a contract, ask to remove that for sure 'cause you don't need- Mm-hmm ... um, voiceover.
We just need your voice, your recordings, your audio. Um, and then watch for any other kinda language, like what Kelly was saying with all media, things that try to bundle things together. Like, do you really need all of that? You know, 'cause the more they're trying to get away with, you know, you should be getting paid more if they really are using it for all of those things.
So make sure everything is outlined so you're clear on what this is going to be used for. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you should be able to read through that contract and know, okay, my voice could be here, here, here, and here, but it would never be here or here. You know? It's you have to know exactly. I would also say add name to that.
Name, image, [00:13:00] and likeness is, is a lot of times in the contract. And again, on commercials, your name doesn't need to go out there with it. Different for animation and video games. You'll get credited. But, you know, it's, it's knowing what language actually needs to be in there and just being very aware of that.
That's one of the- First paragraphs in every single contract, so just watch out for that. It's an easy edit. Some people will fight it. You know, it's one of those things just to, just to be very aware to protect yourself. And then everyone's favorite topic- Yay ... AI and voice protection. So this is, uh, definitely the hot topic of the last couple of years.
So the ri- rise of AI makes contract awareness even more important. This is why you really need to understand what it is you're signing and what it means. Mm-hmm. So look for any language around voice replication, synthesis, or u- or reuse. Um, be aware of clauses that allow your [00:14:00] voice to be altered or reused without consent.
Mm-hmm. And a great resource, if you need it, is the National Association of Voice Actors, or NAVA. They have an AI rider. It's right on their website. It's right on the front page. You know, you don't have to be a member to use it. You can just copy and paste it, and that's- Mm ... a great tool to make sure that all of these things, the voice replication, synthesis, reuse, things like that, aren't happening with the project you're recording.
Yep, absolutely. And, you know, NAVA's got it on their website where you can download it in English and Spanish. Mm-hmm. So, you know, it's, it's there for you to use, you know, so make sure that you're, you're using that, make sure that you're aware of that. Um, anything that sounds too vague- ... could potentially set you up.
And it's not necessarily even that your voice is going to be used for AI that's out there. It's, a lot of times it's using it to [00:15:00] train AI, and you just wanna make sure that you're not training AI without you knowing, without consent, compensation. Mm-hmm. You know, so, and I, you know, the NAVA is going to the capital constantly.
They are advocating for all of us in this industry, and it's, it's just been incredible. So yeah, they have the No Fakes Act that they're really trying to push. So call your representatives about the No Fakes Act. And- It's for everybody, not just voice actors ... it's for everybody, because right now there's no protections on anybody's voice at all, whether it's voice actors or just the person on the street.
So that's what we really need to get into place. People need to have protections for their own voice and like- You should be able to at least own your voice, if anything. Right? It's so cra- such a crazy thing. All right. So let's just dive into a few red flags here. So obviously we [00:16:00] mentioned in perpetuity with little to no compensation.
Um, honestly right now, in perpetuity for anything is kind of a gray area. Unless there are AI protections in place. If you can get the client to sign an AI rider, then, you know, something in perpetuity might be okay. Unlimited use across all medias without boundaries, not okay. Kind of vague or overly broad language.
A- again, all media or, you know, all TV, you know, anything that's just, where it just, it feels like it could be anywhere, get them to kinda maybe narrow that down just a little bit. Yeah. Any and all media now known or hereafter devised. Like, okay, so what could that media potentially be in 10 years? Who knows with how fast things are moving.
Mm-hmm. Of course, if they don't mention any usage or terms at all- Probably ... that's a huge red flag, 'cause yeah, you definitely wanna know what you're doing. What is this being used for? Any contracts that feel rushed or pressure you to sign [00:17:00] immediately, that should always be a red flag 'cause, yeah, a client should want you to read it and know what you're signing.
They shouldn't be rushing you into doing that. Rates that seem high, but are actually buying out everything forever. Again, that goes back to the in perpetuity thing. You know? You see this a lot in AI projects. Like- Mm. Yeah ... it's one of those things- Oh, big deal ... where it's like, ooh, they're paying $85,000.
Mm-hmm. But yes, they're going to do multiple sessions. They are going to then own your voice. Forever. Yeah. Yeah. So $85,000 all of a sudden is not worth it. Right. Mm-hmm. So- Exactly ... be careful of that kinda stuff. And a few things to just kind of remember. Number one is you are always allowed to ask questions.
Mm-hmm. This is a business. You know? It's like, if you're sent something, whether it's from casting, from an agent, from a client directly, on a pay-to-play site, direct marketing, whatever, ask questions. That is your right. It is your business. You have to protect yourself. Mm-hmm. It, you know, [00:18:00] and, and it's clarity.
It's not confrontation. You are not trying to be problematic. You're just trying to be clear- Exactly ... on what's happening, and you have- Make sure we're all on the same page. Mm-hmm. You have to advocate for yourself. Like, that's, that's really one of the biggest things that I can't stress enough. You have to advocate for yourself.
Exactly. And yeah, and even just a small adjustment, just getting them to narrow down the usage to- Mm-hmm ... actually put in writing, oh, it's just for one year or two years. Like, that can make a huge difference. Mm-hmm. Especially if they're holding a conflict, you know? Yeah. 'Cause, you know, that keeps you from auditioning in anything else in that, you know, umbrella for- Mm-hmm
that many years. So the more specificity you can get to these things, it just, it, it's good for you in the long run. Yep. And I've, I've even had clients where they're like, "Okay, we're paying this much for all media." And I'm like, "Well," I was like, "Are you planning broadcast use?" "Well, no, we don't have any broadcast planned."
If we take that out, this rate is great. If you're going to leave that [00:19:00] in, we need to up the rate. Mm-hmm. So a lot of times it's just clarifying things. It, honestly, it works better for everybody. Then there's no gray areas. It's not confusing. So cl- just some closing thoughts on this topic here. Booking the job is just the first step.
Um, know that putting your voice and protecting it are the next steps. You know, you need to be familiar with contracts and how to negotiate and how- Mm-hmm ... to advocate for yourself, because at some point down the line, you'll probably need to do that. Mm-hmm. So just being comfortable, being sure you know and understand what you're reading, that is huge.
That's equally as important as actually booking the job, because these two things go hand-in-hand. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And you have to know your worth, you know? The, the goal isn't just to book the jobs. It's to build a lasting career. Mm-hmm. You know, if you, if you want this to be your full-time career, you have to know your worth.
You can't undervalue yourself. You have to be, [00:20:00] be willing to do the business side of it just as much as the performance side. Exactly. Exactly. And the more you understand the business side, the more power you're gonna have in advocating for yourself and growing your career. So if you haven't yet, make sure you do some research.
Feel free to go back and look at some contracts you've seen and things like that, and just start to notice some of the things that we talked about. And- Get familiar with the terms, yeah. Yeah. And, and moving forward, just make sure you're reading those contracts. And if you have questions on anything, ask.
All right. Thank you so much for joining us on today's episode. We will see you next time. Bye. Catch a new Voice Over Casting Corner episode every second and fourth Tuesday of the month. Be sure to give a thumbs up, subscribe, and follow us at The Voice Castar on social media. Thanks for listening.
